Learnt My Lesson Well

Posted: February 20, 2013 in Dummy Spits, Politics, World News and Events

I want to start this post off by saying that I am no expert on the asylum seeker debate, however just over a week ago I spoke to one, and was surprised at some of what I heard.

We hear a lot about the supposed queues that apparently exist all around the world, almost as if these asylum seekers are lining up to see Faith No More gig. I say Faith No More because if there is one thing that any asylum seeker must be running low on it is faith.

We also hear a lot about the boats that keep on coming from Indonesia, and all the ways we can scare the bejesus out of those people so they don’t try the trip. We can send them to live in a tent city in shocking humidity, or maybe a metal box like a shipping container, all for the sake of scaring other desperate people.

We see them blowing up their boats with gas tanks and throwing their children overboard, their clothes on fire. We see them drowning as their boats are turned into splinters smashed on the rocks in rough seas.

christmas-island-4_1785822b

We hear the slogans like “Stop The Boats”, we hear the terms like “queue jumpers” and the completely false and deliberately misleading “illegal arrivals”. We hear the politicians on all sides accuse the others, all pointing the fingers of blame.

Unfortunately, what we don’t seem to see in the papers, see on the news, or hear the politicians tell us are all the facts, only what suits their spin. This is true of all political parties.

We all know that the boats are leaving from Indonesia to come here, we hear about it every time that Tony Abbott forgets to mention to Indonesian politicians his plans to break international laws and turn boats back.

The John Howard Hotel in Nauru. Shipping containers with a lid and window...

The John Howard Hotel in Nauru. Shipping containers with a lid and window…

I’m guessing that like me you have images of thousands of desperate people waiting to leave Indonesia and head for somewhere to raise their family. What may surprise you is how many asylum seekers we actually take in from Indonesia seeing as it is such a controversial issue. I was absolutely stunned to find out that the number we were taking in was 1800.

1800, is not a lot of people from this apparent ghetto overflowing with desperate people. Even more disturbing, is that 1800 is per decade at the recent rates. That’s right 180 per year, one, eight, zero… kind of makes you wonder if anything is being taken seriously.

You will be pleased to know that now the asylum seeker intake is being increased to 27,000, we will now be taking in a whopping 400 from Indonesia. No, I did not leave a zero off the end, it is actually 400.

You may well be wondering why we keep hearing about the over 10 year waiting list for asylum seekers from Indonesia, that pathetic intake number is why. Currently there are approximately 2,500 registered refugees waiting in Indonesia, and approximately 3000 waiting to be processed and registered, that’s 5,500 which at the current rate is 13.75 years.

If we lifted our intake from Indonesia to just 2000, we would have them here in under three years. So what is the problem?

Well, there are a couple of problems.

There is one person processing asylum seekers in Indonesia currently for the UNHCR, that’s right one. As you can imagine, this causes quite a backlog and a rather lengthy delay.

If we were to send five people over to Indonesia to process asylum seekers there is a good chance a somewhat orderly queue might actually form. If we took in 2000 of our refugee intake from Indonesia there is also a damned good chance that the boats would stop, as a three year wait is bearable, however the prospect of a more than 10 year wait would be an unbearable thought.

Most of the boats that come are filled with families, or a family member being sent out as a scout, this is because it is families that are usually the most desperate. The most important thing to a parent is their child’s future, they will risk anything for that, even death at sea. Families facing the prospect of a 12 year wait to be processed will risk a boat trip, as the best hope for their children is to receive an education. A three-year wait makes it possible for the children to gain an education before becoming an adult, a 12 year wait puts a 5-year-old child at school-leaving age before they even have a chance.

So why hasn’t this happened? It seems Labor are too desperate to look tough and too locked in with the Malaysia idea. The Coalition sure as hell don’t want anything that might work while they are in opposition and are locked into Nauru. The Greens have decided that all offshore processing is evil and won’t even bother to sit down and look at a solution if it doesn’t fit their mould.

So that is where we are, stuck in a rut.

Photos emerged recently that showed the conditions at Manus Island that have caused some outrage, and based on what I have seen I can understand that.

Walking around the block on Manus Island

Walking around the block on Manus Island

Photos such as those above and below are quite sensationalist, and I have certainly stayed in far worse conditions than this. So some will say that these conditions are not so bad, after all anywhere can look bad after a deluge of rain. However while these conditions may be OK for a short stay, they are far from OK for an indefinite stay that will be likely to be measured in years rather than days.

The balcony suite on Manus Island

The balcony suite on Manus Island

We hear about detention centres being referred to as mental illness factories, and being stuck in these type of conditions indefinitely it’s easy to see why.

If you think Nauru is any better, you are wrong. Just because it’s an island in the sun doesn’t make it a holiday resort. You won’t find asylum seekers sitting by the pool with cocktails there. You have to remember, Nauru was concentration camp John Howard style, desighned to dehumanise and frighten, and despite improvements since, it is still not a pleasant place to live by any stretch of the imagination.

Nauru Refugee Resort

Nauru Refugee Resort

Some have the joy of looking forward to several years stay crammed into a tent in the dirt, others have the joys of walls and a roof. Unfortunately those walls and roof are the exterior of a metal shipping container that basks in the sun all day, too hot to walk on barefoot, but apparently OK to raise a child in.

These places have been described as hot and damp, this doesn’t go near far enough.

The only thing in these hell holes with a higher number than the humidity reading are the suicides, attempted suicides, and instances of self harm. What a remarkable achievement by the country that claims to represent the “fair go”.

I for one am sick of the rhetoric coming from people like Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison about queue jumpers, people smugglers, and illegal arrivals. There is no queue, and it is not illegal to seek asylum, nor is it illegal for someone to assist those seeking asylum, in the Coalition they call them people smugglers, in the real world we refer to them as immigration agents.

Statistically the refugees coming by boat are more likely to be genuine refugees than those who come by air. Still, it looks far better for TV to see a poor, skinny, ragged 17-year-old Indonesian kid behind bars as a people smuggler rather than a Qantas pilot in his captains uniform, despite the fact that more refugee’s arrive by air.

The spokesman for Qantas people smugglers...

The spokesman for Qantas people smugglers…

In fact 92% of asylum seekers who arrive by boat end up being accepted as genuine, whereas only 40% who come by air are accepted. Still don’t hold your breath on Abbott turning back the planes, or slogans like “Stop Flight QF043”.

Those who wonder why we are part of the refugee convention that serves to better protect those who flee persecution, war, starvation and terror should look up the MS St Louis.

The MS St Louis was a German ocean liner that in 1939 attempted to find a safe haven and new home for just under a thousand Jews fleeing Germany.

Some of the St Loius Asylum Seekers

Some of the St Loius Asylum Seekers

It tried docking in a few places, but unfortunately for its needy passengers it was headed for places where the government had a “Turn back the boats” or a “Stop The Boats” policy and the boat was refused permission to dock. Those countries consisted of Cuba, America, and Canada.

Eventually the ship ended back in Europe and its passengers back in the hands of the Third Reich. Most of these poor souls ended up finding asylum in a gas chamber.

One of Germanys now disused refugee processing centres

One of Germanys now disused refugee processing centres

The ship’s Captain, Gustav Schröder is considered a hero and has been given many awards for his humanitarian crusade. Risking ones own life to save others is a noble thing indeed.

Unfortunately here in Australia people like Tony Abbott would regard him as a “people smuggler” and label him the as lowest of the low, someone who should be locked up and despised.

So I guess the question is, what have we learned since 1939?

Apparently nothing.

Wixxyleaks now has its own Facebook page now also, you can click here to drop in and say hi or like.

Comments
  1. Fed up says:

    wixxy, this is one of your best. Any idea of how many are coming now,

    I believe that the flow from Sri Lanka has dried up.

    We need to ,remember, it was the sinking of that boat, that left Labor nowhere to go.

    It is time that Abbott and co where bought screaming and struggling back to the negotiation table.

  2. Fed up says:

    PS.; The Greens as well.

  3. Buff McMenis says:

    Labor needs to stand up to the bullying and inhumane stand of people like the LNP ogre Scott Morrison (aka Morriscum!) and so too the Greens and their ill-thought “take everyone NOW” stand espoused by SHY! Grow a backbone, Labor Party .. you KNOW what is right .. get it done!

  4. Fed up says:

    Does that mean the flow has slowed. If so, why are we not hearing about that in the media.

    • wixxy says:

      I don’t think the flow has slowed, the 40 is from Indonesia only

      There are still thousands upon thousands seeking asylum from all over the world

  5. wirilda says:

    Every person in this country should be sat down with a “boat” refugee who’s been granted asylum here, and made to listen to their story. And Mr Fed Up, what is wrong with the Greens’ policy? It’s a lot cheaper than those of the major parties.

    • wixxy says:

      The Greens may have the right idea at heart, as does Labor I believe, but neither have the numbers to get it through alone.

      The Greens refusal to negotiate has put us in the current predicament, I’m sure a Labor/Green agreement would have been better than the current Labor/Liberal deal.

      It seems all the parties got together, discussed things and came up with something none of them were happy with…

      • Marilyn says:

        There is nothing to negotiate, both parties simply want to break the law so which part of law breaking should the Greens abide.

        The 34 articles of the refugee convention are not onerous, they are legally binding, they were written by us and we were the 6th country to ratify the convention happily and willingly.

        The law is everyone has the right to seek asylum from persecution so what do you want the Greens to negotiate away?

        Gillard and the ALP wanted to do this disgusting crap, and for the record every refugee who ever drowned could have and should have been rescued by us but we chose not to bother.

        So why say you are not an expert and then whinge that the Greens would not negotiate away the law.

        Fair dinkum, the ALP’s deranged madness over the Greens who want to uphold the law is driving me insane.

      • wixxy says:

        When this was being debated in parliament until late one night, there was one noticeable absence in a house packed with members from both major parties.

        Adam Bandt decided to not bother with this debate, which the party he is the sole representative of tells us is important to them.

        Maybe there was something good on TV?

  6. Fed up says:

    I am an old lady.

    Nothing wrong with the Greens policy, except it, along with the Malaysian Solution is impossible to put in place.

    The Greens policy is not perfect. There are no perfect answers in this one.

    It is going to take a lot of give and take, from all parties, tp get better than we have now.

    Yes, I would love to say we take all that reach these shores. Problem is that it will lead to many unintentional outcomes.

    As least the PM realises this.

    The PM has put in place all of Abbott’s demands, that was humanly possible to do. It is much harsher that Howard ever manage. . It is not working.

    • Barry says:

      Hi wixxy,
      A thought provoking article.
      Every time I hear Abbott and/or Morrison speak on this issue, smoke comes out of my ears! Both of them are practising Catholics. You know ” do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. “Respect your fellow man” That’s the creed of good practising christian people is it not? Hypocrites! that’s what they are. Their conduct and attitude reflects badly on their church and religion. As an atheist I have more morals and ethics in my little finger than they possess.
      You are correct in saying the Greens refusal to negotiate has exacerbated the problem. Being realistic is something the Greens cannot understand. Love your work.

  7. nikki says:

    the situation in Australia is shameful and I cannot understand how people are not more upset about it. even the UN critic on the offshore situation has not made people react in the slightest. If you look at the numbers, the ‘asylum seeker problem’ in Australia is ridiculous compared to other countries of the western world, for example Europe. Not to mention countries with political or economic crisis themselves that have had to make place for hundreds and thousands of refugees basically over night in African warzones.
    the attitude of the Australian public IMO is actually coming from a severe unbalance in the fogs of illegal immigration (by plane, indeed) via student visa, work visas, fake sponsorship and the like. there are industries in Australia that have completely changed to cater for this situation and – although this would be possible – the government does nothing to regulate this. add the disinformation and hysteria by media and politics, and you have an election relevant subject based on zero facts.

  8. silkworm says:

    Brilliant. Wixxy, you should be on TV, maybe Q&A, with this. Short of TV, you can always post on youtube.

  9. andyrob says:

    I don’t know why we don’t do something similar to US (usually don’t like US ways) with a green card.

    We tried to go there many years ago, Australia Card, but it got canned due to privacy concerns. Do we not provide, generally speaking, most of that info now through Tax office, centerlink, medicare etc.

    So, could this not help us let more in, on temporary visa’s (or similar?) and you need an aussie card for things. could it not replace medicare cards, centerlink no’s etc all those wrapped up in one card??

    I am not sure of the ramifications of that but I have always thought it was a good idea, even from when the idea was first floated.

    ??? is that an option????

  10. Julie says:

    Get over your self Wixxy, why not try joining the Navy and see if your opinion changes when your having to pick these boats up!

    • wixxy says:

      If the boats weren’t coming because of what j mentioned in the post, I’m sure the navy would love it

    • Marilyn says:

      Julie, is that you Ms Bishop? What is wrong with cowards like you who think you have the right to demonise and brutalise innocent people because they can’t get passports and we won’t let them get entry visas because they can’t get passports?

      They are humans, not fucking flotsam and scum.

  11. Valentine says:

    I agree with almost all of this and found it a great read, but I have two problems with it.

    Firstly, you have let Labor off the hook, when their refugee policies are disgusting and breach people’s human rights.

    Secondly, you have waaay over-simplified Greens policies by saying “The Greens have decided that all offshore processing is evil and won’t even bother to sit down and look at a solution if it doesn’t fit their mould”.. You are ignoring the fact that Greens’ major policy with Indonesia and Malaysia is to resettle more people who have been assessed there and to fund the UNHCR to process refugees there faster.. Your problem with that is what exactly?? I could be forgiven for thinking that is the answer to most of the problems you’ve raised above. When you add to that, that Greens want Australia to do a startling and innovative thing.. to actually abide by the Refugee Convention as we previously agreed to do as far as boat arrivals, I think that covers pretty much everything you’ve written about.

    I would love it if you’d look honestly at what Labor are doing and stop the Greens-bashing.

    • wixxy says:

      I am bashing the Libs mostly, but also Labor

      The Greens have to be able to reflect on their actions also, they need to grow from their “everybody is wrong exempt us” attitude

      But I don’t think Labor has done any better….

      • John Tozer says:

        What actions should The Greens reflect on?
        In what way should The Greens grow up? Are you suggesting if they were more mature would they turn back on their values like Labor have on this issue?
        Seriously what part of the Greens policy do you think is the problem because the rest of your article demonstrates how bad the policy of offshore detention is?
        You have not offered up any alternative policy or suggested what the Greens should be doing.

      • wixxy says:

        John, I am getting a lot of comments regarding Greens policy

        The article pointed out that all parties are somewhat to blame, it does seem however that the Greens commenting have a “not us” attitude which is a great way of going nowhere

        The policy that was in place was for onshore processing when all those poor souls were killed at sea. That policy may have kept the Greens happy, but nobody else was, certainly not the families of those who have died.

        Saying that the conditions in Nauru and Manus showing how bad offshore processing is, is the same as saying Villawood shows how good onshore processing is, it is a ridiculous comparison. I’m sure we can all agree that improvements can be made on all fronts, this will not happen in a hung parliament without negotiation

      • Marilyn says:

        But as the Greens, Andrew Wilkie and some of the liberal and ALP parties want to uphold the law with the Greens why bash the Greens.

        Go and read Gillard’s disgusting Lowy speech where she outlines what people are leaving and then outlines ways to stop them.

        WE are actively participating in the genocide of Hazara in Afghanistan and Pakistan, we have people acting outside the law in 17 nations to prevent people leaving to be safe and so on.

        Cheap shots at the party who want to obey the law because you can’t stand criticising the ALP is madness.

        I am an expert, I know hundreds of Hazara, Iraqis and Iranians who were locked up in Woomera, read my articles on IA and see what we did then and what we are doing now.

        And never forget Bolkus and Hand started this filth even though Margaret Reynolds, Paul Keating and Mick Young had all rejected it.

        Gillard is a racist mate, no use just blaming Morrison.

  12. Heather says:

    Thanks Wixxy for that information on the numbers. I thin your solution has great merit.

  13. Valentine says:

    ..but everybody IS wrong except Greens 🙂

  14. Geoff Andrews says:

    Why should the Greens considered intransigent in refusing to agree to any offshore compromise that we know causes the problems outlined by wixxy above?

    “It’s the law!” I hear m’learned friend bellow as he adjusts his sacred horse hair head warmer from where it had been knocked askew by my suggestion, “once they set foot in Australian territory they have the right to challenge any injustice or unfair deportation. Thank god Howard closed that loophole.”

    A pox on both their houses. The competition to be the bigger bastard; their race to the lower moral slough; their hypocrisy in claiming that the reason why they want to “stop the boats” is so that “not one more person must die at sea” so patently insincere, has brought a stench to Australian politics.

  15. Thought-provoking post. The government has painted itself into a proverbial mess. It’s Howard-lite. Abbott’s version is Howard-heavy.

  16. Helen says:

    Wixxy assuming your Indo numbers are only the “registered refugees”? Not taking into account Indonesia’s illiegal immigrants? Just a question and pardon my ignorance if it’s a silly one.

    And my understanding is that what the greens are not prepared to negotiate on is Australia meeting it’s responsibilities under the UN refugee convention. Surely that should be a starting point and I believe they are right to demand that.

    Thanks for doing this article. Wouldn’t it be a nice dream for this to be on the news instead of the “stop the boats” bile.

    • wixxy says:

      Yep that’s right, just the registered ones in my numbers.

      On the refugee charter, it allows for offshore processing in Indonesia, there is 1 UNHCR processing there now, so discussions could have been had

      • Marilyn says:

        No it does not. People can apply to the UNHCR in any country but that does not mean they will be protected. Perhaps you don’t know that we pay for the UNHCR because Indonesia does not want to, we pay for the Indonesian prisons, we pay for the creepy IOM to jail people, we break the law at every turn.

        Because resettlement is nice but it has no legal basis.

        What we have done for the past 40 years is lock up refugees in INdonesia and then refuse to accept them because we claim they were trying to come here unlawfully.

        And as the only thing asylum seekers are doing is applying for an 866 protection visa that they can only apply for here just what process do you think they are undertaking in Manus and Nauru?

        This is old hairy news that has been endlessly reported from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, the UN human rights council, the UNHCR and every human rights and legal body in the region since the days of jails for the Indonesians.

        http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs

        Read some facts here.

        There is a view that asylum seekers, particularly those who arrive in Australia by boat, are ‘jumping the queue’ and taking the place of a more deserving refugee awaiting resettlement in a refugee camp. The concept of an orderly queue does not accord with the reality of the asylum process. Paul Power, CEO of the Refugee Council of Australia (RCOA) notes that:

        Implicit in this view is that Australia should not be bothered by people seeking protection under the Refugee Convention and that genuine refugees should go to other countries and wait patiently in the hope that Australia may choose to resettle them.[25]

        The reality is that only a small proportion of asylum seekers are registered with the UNHCR and only 11 per cent of asylum claims were registered with the UNHCR in 2011.[26]

        Once registered with the UNHCR, many refugees seek resettlement to a country such as Australia. ++++++++++++++Refugees do not have a right to be resettled, and states are not obliged under the 1951 Refugee Convention or any other instrument to accept refugees for resettlement. It is a voluntary scheme co-ordinated by the UNHCR which, amongst other things, facilitates burden-sharing amongst signatory states. Resettlement therefore complements and is not a substitute for the provision of protection to people who apply for asylum under the Convention.++++++++++

  17. Bridget says:

    My close friend is in the AIF in Afghanistan. He has lived in a leaky tent and in mortal danger daily for 9 months. He does not complain. He has no one trumpeting his and the other AIF soldiers cause. The squeaky wheel will always be oiled first. It is fine for AIF soldiers to live in conditions worse than Nauru or Manus yet they are forgotten by all and treated like scum. Let’s get things right for both groups starting with our own citizens first !

    • Marilyn says:

      They are not living in leaky frigging tents in Afghanistan, they live a life of quite luxury surroundings while all around them the Afghan children are starving to death. And Bridget, our soldiers have volunteered to murder people in their own country, the escapees have not volunteered to be jailed in a foreign country for asking for our help and the stupid soldiers do not have to sign up for a war that was never declared and was lost a decade ago.

      Really and truly, I do get sick of this sort of racist waffle dear.

      • wixxy says:

        Marilyn, you tend to throw the racist accusation out remarkably often. Just because someone does not agree with all your opinions does not make them a racist.

        You may know a lot of facts, but you use those to form an opinion, but not everything you say is fact, and your opinions are often extreme.

        For example our soldiers have not “volunteered to murder people in their own country” this is utter crap.

        They have followed orders in going there. They may have volunteered for the army, but I don’t think you would find a single one who would say they volunteered to kill foreigners. Most joined as they want a college education that they can’t afford on their own, or they want to defend our country. Defending yourself against someone who is shooting at you is common sense.

        Statements like yours are just straight out offensive, incorrect, discriminitory, and totally innappropriate.

        I know that you know better than that, so can you please try a little less of the accusations, most of us want the same thing…

      • Bridget says:

        You cannot accept the fact, Marilyn, that people have to uphold the precepts of documents like the Magna Carta. Try going to Syria now and speaking out against that regimes behaviour – declaring they are racist for selective genocide of the Armeneans and Kurds. You wouldn’t DARE nor last. Oh! But it’s all very well to rant in a free country -isn’t it. Have you ever thought that maybe refugees WANT to come here because of the Freedoms we have. I wonder who ensures those Freedoms are maintained – and not simply taken from us. The more you post the bigger idiot you look dear. We wouldn’t want logic to continue toremain a casualty now would would we dear

  18. Bridget says:

    Barry – Paul Keating practising Catholic? Fred Daly? Ben Chifley ? Pity help those refugees who may be religious. Should we just let in those of no faith and throw the “believers”, whatever their religion, into the sea. You should be running with Hanson, and the Pigeon-holers, in September. And why is it Christians but never Hindus, Muslims, etc are ridiculed.

    • Barry says:

      Bridget – you completely misinterpret my comments. I do not care what religion the refugees are,they are Human Beings, first and foremost, and should be treated with due respect. As I understand it, the Catholic church teaches tolerence of other beliefs, compassion and that all people, irrespective of colour, creed or belief, are equal in the eyes of the Lord. Now explain to me how the actions of Abbott and Morrison conform to these teachings.I have no problem with people who choose to be believe in religion, however, surely they must practise what they preach.
      To do otherwise is hypocrisy.
      “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is a belief I have held and tried to live by all of my long life.
      The treatment of refugees (illegals in the eyes of Abbott and Morrison) disgusts me.

  19. oldfart says:

    1800 per year of upfront honest people who arrive without subterfuge and request assylum. So why are they illegal?
    13000 people arrive by air WITH a visa and overstay their visa, hardly worth a mention in the press.
    So why, after arriving WITH documentation and subterfuge do we have a government and opposition that dont raise these people as an issue in the media? Could it be that the majority of them, not all of them are of anglo saxon descent?

    MarilynS is given a hard time over her anger on this issue at IA, but I congratulate her for raising her voice and declaring that this is wrong. I wish there were more Marilyns

    • wixxy says:

      The government has raised this a million times so to beat them up over this is cheap point scoring

      I’m sure you will find that most that come by air who try and stay permanently are either Kiwis or Asian, so the race card is a low shot.

      The vast bulk of these are UK and European backpackers who overstay their visa by a month or so

      • oldfart says:

        on contrare Wixxy If you check out immigration’s own statistics the majority of overstayers are indeed of european descent, with canadians and americans figuring highly. It wasn’t a race card as I dont believe in racism, a manmade invention. We all belong to the human species last time I looked. I was simply quoting statistics

      • wixxy says:

        Thats exactly what I said…

        “The vast bulk of these are UK and European backpackers who overstay their visa by a month or so”

        I apologise if I was wrong, but when you said “Could it be that the majority of them, not all of them are of anglo saxon descent?”, I assumed that was a race card….

  20. 2353 says:

    A simple and logical solution Wixxy. If you make the “official” channel a real alternative, people will use it. Pity one of the Conservative mantras is “border security” and the Progressives in this country are too busy pandering to the Conservatives (to try and get a vote) to do anything remotely resembling a humane policy and practice.

    • Marilyn says:

      There is no such thing as an official channel for asylum seekers, look around the world and see if you can find any other country in it ranting about this official channel we have invented.

      The only official way to claim refugee status is to be outside your own country and entering another and asking.

      And as Indonesia, Malaysia and all our neighbours do not care to protect them and we won’t allow them visas to travel here safely what are they supposed to do?

  21. Marilyn says:

    There are 54,800 who overstayed as of this year, 25% of them have stayed for over 15 years.

    Now we see that moron O”Connor bleating about Malaysia again because some Rohingya died 3000 kim from Christmas Island.

    They would still have to have got here to be traded to a country that has already rejected them.

    Using people as pawns in their sick games drive me insane.

    • Bridget says:

      Marilyn – just remember that it is people like the soldiers of the AIF that defend your right to speak the way you do – as demented, convoluted and bigotted as that may be. Fancy bleeting like you do in North Korea, Georgia, Liberia, Somalia, etc. Oh ! You can’t? I’m with Wixxy on this one – show some respect.

      • Marilyn says:

        My god, what frigging drivel. No bloody soldier ever died so I can speak, it is an 800 year old common law made and raised in the Magna Carta which is what our constitution is based on that gives me the right to speak.

        My grandfather spent 6 years in the shit, the piss and the blood, and prison camps and he did not let me speak at all and he beat my father and his wife until the day the miserable bastard died.

        If we are supposed to have the right to speak why do you people so much want me to shut up instead of telling the truth?

        Australia went to kill the gooks, now we go to kill the ragheads to appease America. AT the ripe old age of 60 I will not buy into the soldier as hero of free speech crap – especially when the ADF will not even allow them to tell their stories here or overseas and the media is embedded and controlled to within an inch of their lives.

        Afghanistan was invaded by us, tens of thousands are dead. How does that help me have the right to speak so that I can be told to shut up?

        My grandfather joined because he wanted to help the mother country, so did almost every other soldier of that time, why the hell are they joining to go to a war that started when they were in primary school and was lost a few months later?

        He then did everything in his power to prevent his youngest son being sent to the hell hole that his mates were in at the time, Vietnam. Vietnam was a lie, AFghanistan was a lie, Iraq was a lie.

        How does joining wars based on lies give me any right to speak?

        Fair dinkum.

      • wixxy says:

        Yes, and in the World War 1 and World War 2 we went off to kill White Europeans, does that mean as a country we hate White Europeans?

        It seems to be your logic Marilyn….

  22. Marilyn says:

    They volunteered to kill rag heads, didn’t you see their disgusting website?

    And how isn’t it racist when we are talking about trading and jailing only brown people because they ask for help but the tens of thousands of white spivs. here because the sun shines brighter are never mentioned or hounded or harassed?

    Tell me how that is not racist Peter. Would we be having this race to the bottom if they were Zimbabwes white farmers, or Europeans?

    No we would not.

    But because people are brown we in this racists country think we can do what we like.

    Now that rubbish person O”Connor is whining about Malaysia when Malaysia won’t even let an Australian politician into the country – if a plane crashed 8,700 from Sydney and some said they had been coming to Australia would the cry go up that we have to stop the planes and make the passengers we want to come here all go somewhere else.

    WE have no legal right to trade and traffic in humans and there is no such thing as off shore processing for the simple reason that under our law people have to be here to ask for protection.

    They can’t do it by yelling off the shores of other nations.

    • wixxy says:

      I am sure that whatever website you ae talking about is not run, created, or endorsed by every single member of our armed forces. Or would you like to be judged by the actions of others who don’t represent your views?

      Marlilyn, whatever decisions dept of immigration make, it is not based on my opinion, nor Bridgets, nor yours, nor anyone else that has put a comment up here that you deem as racist.

      You fund the dept with your tax dollars, does that make you a racist?

      • Marilyn says:

        You claim Adam Bandt was missing in action on the dirty Nauru deal, here is his speech?

        And don’t forget that in WW1 we wanted to murder Turks at Gallipoli in an illegal invasion more than we cared about the Europeans, in 1919 after the war ended we and the Kiwis murdered dozens of innocent arabs at Surafend and in WW11 we wanted at the japs. more than anyone else and murdered 100 New Guineans we accused of helping the japs.

        IN those wars we as a nation wanted to help the mother country, this one was left to rot and even after the war we left people here hungry so we could feed the mother country.

        Maybe whites killing whites is not specifically racist but why did we join in the massacres of Turks, arabs and others in wars that had nothing to do with us?

        And gooks, slopes and others in Nam, Laos and Cambodia? What did it have to do with us?

        Millions are dead due to lies and now we have liars telling us we have to torture the victims of war and pretending that it is OK because they are only brown.

        The thing is the Indonesian kids were jailed with adults under O’Connor because their consulates were not advised. Then when the consulates found out the law had to be upheld because their jailing was always illegal.

        Now the stupid little twerp thinks we should flog refugees here off to Malaysia because refugees died 8,750 km from Sydney after fleeing genocide.

        There is no asylum debate, everyone has the right to seek asylum and I will never, ever accept that some poor schmuck thinks he died so I can speak.

        That is ridiculous.

      • wixxy says:

        That’s not what I said.

        I said he was not there when they others stayed until 2 or 3am. That speech is obviously at a different time to what I meant.

        I wil look for a clip tomorrow, I’m going out in a bit…..

  23. Marilyn says:

    http://www.rohingya.org/portal/index.php/rohingya-library/32-refugee/510-140-rohingya-refugees-arrested-in-penang-national-park.html

    And here is the plight of refugees in Malaysia three days ago. Yet still the racists in the ALP think this is a good idea.

    Too bad that people have to get all the way here first and last year in the so-called increase we still only accepted 1300 people from Malaysia.

  24. Ben Down says:

    Marilyn, really don’t want to buy into the refugee debate but you say we only took 1300 from Malaysia
    Malaysia wouldn’t even take one of ours {Xenophon}

    • Marilyn says:

      WE did not accept Malaysians, we accepted Burmese, a few Afghans, Iranians and Iraqis. Why do you have to link Xenophon to refugees though, is he a persecuted person.

      • Ben Down says:

        We accepted 1300 FROM Malaysia
        They refused to accept ONE from Australia. being Xenophon
        WE can’t be the refugee sanctuary for the whole world.
        Take 20,00 yearly but take those most at risk and that seems to be the ones from the African continent

  25. Ben Down says:

    actually , I will comment.
    I support a large intake of refugees {20,000 is fine]
    My concern is that everyone that comes by boat, and can obviously afford it, leaves one poor bastard sitting in the danger ,filth, dust and poverty of an African countries refugee camp, with no hope

    • Valentine says:

      I really hate that too Ben. We are the only country in the world to link our onshore and offshore intake. Phillip Ruddock did it under the Howard government abut 15 years ago. Just one more reason I can’t stand the man. It would take a stroke of a pen to undo that decision but Labor hasn’t seen fit to do it.

      You are aware of course that you don’t have to be poor to be a refugee?

    • Marilyn says:

      It does not. For gods’ sake, for every tourist who gets here some other tourist doesn’t, for every student who gets here some other students can’t, for every migrant who gets here other migrants don’t.

      Read the piece in the library that I posted.

      There is no such thing saying we have to accept people who are refugees in other countries and deny asylum to those who are here. What you are saying is that other nations have to do the refugee assessments but we are so precious we don’t.

  26. Valentine says:

    It would be a very stupid person who would join the armed forces unaware that it may mean they are to go to war, be trained and obliged to kill, and face death themselves. They choose to be there and have put themselves in a position where negative things happen to them and they kill people in countries from which we then have people seeking asylum.

    In contrast, a refugee is a person who is unlucky enough to live in a country where their government has put them at risk of their life. They have religious or political beliefs, a particular racial background or a sexual preference that means they are at risk of being injured, tortured, deprived of their liberty or killed. They have every right to come here in any way they can and we have a responsibility to assist them. That is what we agreed to do.

    If we actually had the sense of a fair go for all, mate-ship, hold out a helping hand to those who need it, we would still be doing that. It appals me that our government lies about them and shirks their responsibilities to them. Not only that but it is actually colluding with the Sri Lankan government to stop them leaving to seek refuge, and practices refoulement, while ignoring warnings from agencies such as Amnesty International that they are being imprisoned and tortured upon their return. I find it unbelievable that you are actively condemning the Greens for standing up and saying it is wrong for Australia to do that and we should be meeting our international obligations.

    I could not vote for Labor again after that and I am proud to to have political leaders who practice decency in the Greens.

    I believe in the Burke quote that “All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing”. Through observing this whole sorry saga, I have become aware of just how German people came to view Nazism as acceptable, and how South African whites were able to excuse apartheid.

    Is that an over-exaggeration? No. People are at severe risk and dying because of our actions. Our propaganda machine is in full swing against asylum seekers – largely because they are mostly Muslim in a post-9/11 world, and because John Howard discovered the electoral appeal of dog whistling to a bunch of xenophobes and capturing the ugly-Australian racist conservative vote.

    Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott have also learned their lesson well.

    • wixxy says:

      I know that those volunteering must have a reasonable expectation of going to war, I’m sure they do, that however does not mean they enjoyed to murder people, or for some racist reason as was being implied by others.

      I do wish people would not attempt ti put words in my mouth, I am criticising the Greens for not negotiating to produce a reasonable outcome.

      It has to be remembered these negotiation came about due to the shocking death of men, women and children off the coast of Christmas Island.

      Using the logic displayed by many of those who have commented here I can assume the Greens are racist.

      Those who died tragically were mostly Muslim, and were all dark skinned. The Labor Party and the Coalition thought it was tragic enough to negotiate a deal to prevent these deaths in the future as these people did not deserve to die.

      Maybe if these people who drowned were white, Christian and European the Greens may have thought it important enough to join the negotiations?

      That is the twisted logic being used by many commenting here.

      The main difference between the ALP and the Greens appears to be that Labor members have the guts to realise their parties faults and try and address them by being open and honest about them.

      The Greens are gutless in this regards, a party cannot be progressive without being able to look in the mirror and admit its own errors.

      • Marilyn says:

        How do you think people should join negotiations to break the fucking law Peter? What if they wanted to break the law for you?

        How would you like it if some petty pollies in another state decided to break their own laws to appease some pissweak mob of racists to keep you out, keep you jailed without cause, keep your babies jailed without cause or legal rights?

        The fucking dirty deals done by us with the neighbours are ILLEGAL, THEY ARE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

        How dare you be so fucking stupid when I know you are a smart person.

        Go and learn something and then tell me precisely how human trading stops people from drowning because you dimwit they have to get here first.

        The Greens have wanted to abide by the law, I hope one day you talk to Craig Thomson and find out what it is like when cops and petty morons break the law to appease someone else.

        The Greens are not the gutless ones here, it is the bloody racist morons in the ALP who are in the wrong.

        Everyone has the legal right to claim asylum, we have zero right to stop them.

        And the people who died off Christmas Island died because we let them, just like all the others have.

        See sievx.com if you don’t believe me.

        And Bowen locked the survivors up for days away from the world, some were denied protection, the 8 year old orphan was flown back to prison and tormented after being flown like a criminal under police guard for his parents funeral.

        The ALP have not admitted any mistakes, they simply blame the Greens as you are trying on.

        The ALP don’t care if people drown, if they did they would not have waited for days to send out a search party.

        http://www.smh.com.au/world/rescued-burmese-in-limbo-after-boat-deaths-20130221-2euci.html

        And O”Connor has a whinge about boats missing, but let’s be real. If a plane crashed thousands of KM from here and some people who wanted to come to Australia died would we say stop the planes?

      • wixxy says:

        You have gone way off track Marilyn I am taking about negotiations in parliament here in Australia and you are talking about deals done overseas. The Greens had a chance for input into a discussion they say is an important issue, they decided it is better to not negotiate and then complain later.

        They ignored the deaths of those at sea who had just died thinking it was better to attempt to gain political mileage rather than enter discussions that may actually help the situation. That failed and rightly did the Greens more harm than good. Next time these discussions need to be had I hope Katters Australia Party are a little more interested in putting poor people first, as I can assume that is who will be holding the balance of power next time around.

        I don’t think you will find a single Labor MP who has said he is happy with the situation we find ourselves in, not one, including the Immigration Minister who has said numerous times, including when announcing the deal that he was not happy with it. We were forced to do a deal with the devil to stop poor people dying at sea, it would have been nice if there was a third party that could have helped out, but that was not going to happen.

        The website you mention is opinion based writing with some facts, it is a good site but not one that never needs to be held to scrutiny. It is also about the only site that supports some of your wild theories, do you have something to do with the site?

        The boy who came to the funeral, which the ALP fought for, came under guard for his own protection, in the same way that Justin Bieber has a police guard if he comes here.

        The ALP do care if people drown, that is why we entered negotiation to try and stop it happenning, there is only one party who didn’t.

        The article you linked says nothing about waiting days to send out a search party, nothing. So unless you have real evidence of it, I can assume that statement is crap.

      • Ben Down says:

        my cousins son was killed in Afghanistan.
        He went there believing he was helping the Afghan people.
        Maybe that was an unreal expectation.
        He most definately did not do there to “murder them”
        I find it very offensive that it is stated “volunteered to murder people in their own country”
        as one contributed.
        He thought he was “serving ” our country and theirs

  27. Ben Down says:

    @Valentine.
    Yes I fully understand that you don’t have to be poor to be a refugee.
    All I’m pointing out, is that those who have money do have some options i.e pay for the boats.
    The vast majority are dirt poor, and they are the ones disadvantaged by boat arrivals, as it fills up our quota

  28. Ben Down says:

    wow, the flaming gets pretty hot here.
    seems like rational debate will get your burned.

  29. vps says:

    This post is amazing. I realy love it

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s